Aztek Fan Club

[ngkline]

Hello everybody....
I just joined the forum so bear with me. I too have an 28,000 mile '03 AWD with the exact same symptons described here. I checked the fluid levels (they were OK) before taking it in to the dealer today. Seeing as how I live in Florida and there aren't too many AWDs here (I need my AWD for pulling a boat up a slippery ramp) the mechanic had never seen the problem. He first listened from inside and thought it came from the rear end, but I told him to stand outside and then he said the groan was coming from the center (transfer case).

He said he would check with the factory and get back to me. Just got a call and he said there is a bulletin on it, so bring it in. Don't know what the bulletin said, but as the saga continues, I will keep you all posted.  

[Newfie Hauler]

ngkline,

If you can obtain a copy of the bulletin, I would be very interested in a copy of it (scanned or faxed).

Newfie Hauler

[ngkline]

I'm taking it in monday (2/14/05). Will let you know how I make out. Don't know if you've already seen these, but I did find the following summaries in the NHTSA site. They both refer to the rear, not what the mechanic said he heard on mine.

Also, if anyone has a wimpy sounding horn, see the last TSB. I took mine in a year ago complaining that it sounded like only one horn was working. They told me it was normal. Since then I checked and the 2nd horn (behind the passenger side headlamp) was missing. This TSP seems to comfirm that. Will have them check that out as well.

Be aware that the TSP #s that NHTSA lists is not the GM #.


Technical Service Bulletins Summary

Make:  PONTIAC  
Model:  AZTEK  
Year:  2003  
Type:  ANY  
Service Bulletin Number:  01486  
NHTSA Item Number:  10005501  
Summary Description:    
MOAN GROAN FROM RDM (REAR DRIVE MODULE) DURING PARKING LOT OR TURNING MANEUVERS. SIT BULLETIN 1400803. *TT  
 

Technical Service Bulletins Summary

Make:  PONTIAC  
Model:  AZTEK  
Year:  2003  
Type:  ANY  
Service Bulletin Number:  3185  
NHTSA Item Number:  10010609  
Summary Description:    
MOAN GROAN FROM REAR DRIVE MODULE DURING PARKING LOT OR TURNING MANEUVERS. *EH  



Technical Service Bulletins Summary

Make:  PONTIAC  
Model:  AZTEK  
Year:  2003  
Type:  ANY  
Service Bulletin Number:  0088A  
NHTSA Item Number:  10007818  
Summary Description:    
HORN MISSING OR SOUNDS WEAK. *TT  




 
 

[Newfie Hauler]

ngkline,

Yes, I have seen the NHTSA summaries.  It is a shame, they used to actually have the bulletins in there (long story as to why they were removed).  I also checked the summaries of AllData, which oddly enough does not list either of these bulletins.  They list one regarding AWD driving characteristics, but that is a whole other issue.  I know that the two you refer to exist, beccause I saw them when I worked for GM.

I know that one of our owners (Killerbee) installed another horn or a new horn with success.  You might want to try emailing her and/or doing a search on the site for that post.  I believe the horn was removed as one of GM's cost cutting measures that they implemented in the 2003 model year.  My 2002 has two horns (one high and one low note).

[ngkline]

I took the Aztek in monday and after doing some diagnostics they said they had to order some parts, namely Versatrak fluid and the horn. Am taking it back next monday when they will change the fluid. I personally feel  that it won't help, but we'll take it a step at a time. Will keep you posted.

I contacted a friend of mine that still works at a B-P dealership up north and she punched in "groan" and came up with the following TSPs:


Venture Rendezvous Silhouette Aztek Montana Uplander Terraza Moan Groan from RDM during Parking Lot or Turning Maneuvers - kw axle AWD check clutch differential drive pump RDM Steyr rear #PIP3185B - (Jan 26, 2005)
Venture Rendezvous Silhouette Aztek Montana Uplander Terraza Moan Groan from RDM During Parking Lot or Turning Maneuvers.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in the PI.

Condition/Concern:
Moan or groan resonance from the RDM (Rear Drive Module) during parking lot or turning maneuvers.
Condition may be eliminated with the clutch pump check valve disconnected.
The "AWD Indicator Light" is NOT illuminated.
Verified the noise is originating from the RDM with the chassis ears and/or by using a long rubber hose installed on the RDM vent and held up to your ear.
Recommendation/Instructions:
Disconnect the clutch pump actuator check valve connector. If the noise is eliminated, proceed to step #2. If the noise is present with the check valve disconnected, the condition may not be from the RDM. This should be verified with the rubber hose test and/or chassis ears.
Swap the wheels and tires from an identically built vehicle that does not exhibit the concern. Drive the vehicle and re-evaluate the original concern and see if it is repaired. If not, continue with step #3.
Drain and refill the RDM with the recommended fluid P/N 12378514 (88901045 in Canada) as described in the published service procedures. If the noise is present after replacing the fluid proceed to step #4.
Perform the "AWD System Functional Inspection" tests as described in eSI. If the RDM fails any of the functional tests replace the RDM. Please document on the repair order which test or tests the RDM failed.
If the RDM passes all of the functional tests and the noise is eliminated with the clutch pump check valve disconnected, verify the noise is from the RDM with both the chassis ears and the rubber hose test. If the RDM is identified as the source of the noise, replace with an assembly.



This is the second one:

Abnormal Noise and Vibration While Driving - kw accessory aftermarket axle buzz case growl groan howl moan prop rattle resonance shaft transmission whine body boom part modification no OEM #PIP3140 - (Nov 24, 2004)
Abnormal Noise and Vibration While Driving

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom described in the PI.

Condition/Concern:
Some customers may notice a noise or a vibration in their vehicle that seems to be abnormal and may not have been there when the vehicle was new. Comparison of the customer vehicle noise and/or vibration levels with another vehicle of the same make and model may reveal that the customer's vehicle may have a higher level of noise and/or vibration.

Recommendation/Instructions:
The first step in diagnosis of a concern of this nature is to evaluate the customer vehicle for any aftermarket accessories. The mounting or location of some of these items are designed for convenience and many times do not take into consideration the negative effects they may have with air flow over and around the vehicle and also noise transfer paths when the item is located between two isolated components. For example the popular "step bars/nerf bars" that contact both the frame of the truck and the cab without any type of insulation are a noise transfer path of a normally operating drivetrain into the passenger area of the vehicle. Some other known contributors to noise and vibrations are running boards, bug shields, sun visors, emergency lights, ect... Removal of these items, while many times not popular with the customer, is necessary in order to evaluate whether they contribute to the customer's concern.

Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance.

 

[Newfie Hauler]

ngkline,

Thank you for the information.  I have seen some of the procedures in the service manual that these two TSBs refer to.

I should think using these bulletins and the service manual procedures, they should be able to get to the root cause of the problem with your Tek.  It just takes some investigating.

Newfie

[ngkline]

Took the 'tek back in monday and they changed the fluid in the RDM and believe it or not, the noise is gone. I'm not real confident that this will be a long term fix, but for now it's fine. Will let you know if it returns.

P.S.- They did add the second horn.... now it doesn't sound like a little wimp anymore!

[spaztekey]

Is the fluid something that is easily replaced or is it best to have the service center do it?

[Newfie Hauler]

spaztekey,

It depends on your comfort level, ability to get the correct fluid and a means to capture it and dispose of it.  I am not sure what the dealer charges to do it, might be worth investigating just for sheer convenience.

I am also not sure, but I will check, if the plugs on the rear drive axle module (RDM) require any sealant of any kind.

Newfie

[Newfie Hauler]

spaztekey,

Here are the procedures to change the Fluids in the Rear Drive Module (RDM-rear axle) and the Transfer Case (front).
RDM:
1. Raise the vehicle. (You might be able to access the plugs without this step.  Just raising one end of the vehicle might not allow the fluid to drain properly and I doubt many people have access to a hoist)
2. Clean any dirt from around the drain plug.
3. Position an oil drain pan under the plug.
4. Remove the plug and gasket (washer?) from the differential and drain the oil. (It appears that they use a recessed/Allen headed plug, definately metric.  Make sure that the head of the plug is thoroughly cleaned of dirt and the Allen head socket is firmly seated in the recess of the plug, you do not want to strip the inside of the plug as the repair could be pretty expensive).
5. Once the fluid has drained out, install the drain plug and gasket.  Tighten the plug to 32 Nm/23 lb ft.  Torque on this plug is important.  Due to the material used for the case, you don't want to overtighten it (it will stip the threads) and you don't want it too loose or the plug will vibrate out.
6. Clean the dirt away from the fill plug.  Remove the fill plug.
7. Fill it with the proper Versatrak Synthetic Fluid (GM U.S. Part # 123878514, Canada Part # 88901045), adding 2.1 qts./1.9L of fluid.  It should be filled to the bottom of the plug hole or no lower than 6 mm/0.25 in of the hole.
8. Install the fill plug using the same note from the drain plug above (same type of fastener).  Tighten the fill plug to 32 Nm/23 lb ft.
9. Lower the vehicle (If it was raised)
10. Drive the vehicle in several tight circles going left and right.  This distributes the fluid around the clutch packs and gerotor pumps.  This is a very important step.
11. Raise the vehicle again (if done previously).
12. Remove the fill plug and check the fluid level.  Add fluid as required so that it is no more than 6mm/0.25 in from the opening.
13. Install the fill plug and tighten it to 32 Nm/23 lb ft.
14. Lower the vehicle (If it was raised).

Transfer Case Fluid Replacement.  Two fluids are used in the transfer case.  The main body of the transfer case that contains the hypoid gears shares its fluid with the transaxle.  So to exchange that fluid you will have to drain the transaxle fluid and replace the transaxle filter.  The rear extension housing of the transfer case, containing the bevel gears is filled with the same Versatrak fluid used in the rear axle.  Here is how to drain and fill the extension housing:
1. Raise the vehicle (again you might be able to access this without raising the vehicle, but it must be safely raised, supported and kept level to allow proper drainage.)
2. Clean around the fill plug and the drain plug.
3. Remove the fill plug and gasket.
4. Place an oil pan under the drain plug.
5. Remove the drain plug and gasket. Allow the fluid to drain.
6. Install the drain plug and gasket.  Tighten the drain plug to 32 Nm/23 lb ft.
7. Fill the extension housing with the proper Versatrak Synthetic Fluid (GM U.S. Part # 123878514, Canada Part # 88901045), adding 290 ml/0.6 pints of fluid.
8. Fill the transfer case up to the bottom of the oil fill plug hole.  Note: this one must be full.
9. Install the oil fill plug and gasket.  Torque the fill plug to 28 Nm/21 lb ft.
10. Lower the vehicle, if raised.


I hope that this helps.  If you need any additional information, please let me know, such as proper lifting points and places to put jack stands etc.

Newfie Hauler

[turnpikejohn]

My 2003 is moaning also. The dealership told me it was the rear differential. Good thing I purchased the warranty!

[chameleon-Kat]

turnpikejohn, how many miles do you have on your Tek?  Also have they (or are they going to) tried changing fluid as mentioned above?

[turnpikejohn]

I have 39,800 miles on it. The dealership replaced the rear differential. Had a $200.00 deductible and was told the entire job including labor was $3400. No mention of the fluid change from the dealership.

[Newfie Hauler]

From what I understand the fluid issue correction does not apply to all instances of the groaning noise.  In other words, in some cases it will not correct the problem and in other cases it will.  It depends on what is causing the problem. (Fluid vs. internal component)

[TekInDaBurg]

having my rear differential replaced today on ours.  when I took it in, I figured that they would just change the fluid.  but they are replacing the whole thing.  works for me.  almost 60k miles on ours and the groaning has been going on for awhile now.